4th neutral race

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RedRaven
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4th neutral race

Post by RedRaven » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:17 am

Obsidianman 24 17 18 16 24 3750 2250 3500 Diamondman

This race is actually made of elemental earth. Very long lived and very slow moving. Their "skin" is actually consistency of obsidian. A tall race (9'foot would be average) and heavy (1k lbs).
Their skin would give them a natural ac bonus (suggest nekkid ac of 50 at start and maybe drop of 5 per every 15 levels)
Make good warriors and excellent druids, but not so great magicians/thieves.
starting stats 20 12 13 11 20
immune to heat, cold; resistant to bash/blunt
vulnerable to lightning (drowning if ever find a way to effectively use this vuln)
skills hibernate (blends in with local stone varying degree of success depending on building material or natural terrain. Basically become a rock , able to fully observe all that goes on in room sight, sound, smell, but regen as if sleeping and immune to enviro effects (ie heat, cold, acid, wither))

This taken from an old rpg I used to play, I fully enjoyed playing the big dumb rock :)
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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by Vizzini » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:51 am

I like the idea of an animated stone race. I'm fully behind the idea of having more distinct races than the standard human sized biped. A race with 8 arms for example, a centaur like race that can act as a mount for another player, an outsized troll like race that benefits from massive strength but very limited magical or skilled ability. That kinda thing.

Nice idea.

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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by RedRaven » Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:56 pm

oooh, 8 arms= shield, 5 weapons, 2nd, 3rd, 4th attack and haste so 9 attacks per round or 10 without a shield :)
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Nibelung
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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by Nibelung » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:16 am

aside from the fact that we're never going to make shit like this... the only stone related race I'd ever permit created is the gargoyle. there'd be a significant disadvantage to having wings and skin as hard as stone....the fact that any source of light similar to sunlight would leave you as an immobile statue would help counterbalance the abilities they'd get.

The primary goal in race design is BALANCE... not against other races, but to the game itself. The next is to have some sense of LOGIC. Just using magic as a reason is a cop out. Let's take your example... Immune to heat? Bullshit. At most, resistant, if that. Even rock will melt with sufficient heat. Obsidian is made from volcanic sources. Last I checked, lava/magma is damn hot. Cold? Again bullshit. You can shatter rock with the right application of cold. At best, it should be RESISTANT to bash/blunt attacks, and that's only if it's not something that can outright SHATTER obsidian. Vulnerable to lightning? Are they GROUNDED to make current, much less allowing damage possible? If anything, they'd be resistant or immune. Drowning would make no sense as a vuln as they wouldn't BREATHE thus can't drown. If your stats are in the order of STR, INT, WIS, DEX and CON... then your INT and WIS are too damn high for a dumb rock creature. DEX might be a bit too high as well if they are supposed to be slow. If I were to see one of these exist, they'd be POWERHOUSES but dumb and slow as the stones they are. About all I'd ever see these used as are bludgeon attackers.

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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by RedRaven » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:26 pm

Ok, those would be maximum stats, and are 1) sub human maxes and 2) just initial guidelines. You have to remember that any player character in any game is above average for their race, hence why they get such "super natural" powers. So put the starting stats lower, but the max stats I stated would be very much in line with max stats for the other races. Like I said the idea was from a rpg I play and this race is by far not unbalanced with the world or other races. As for drowning, they breathe, they are rock-like and have some rock abilities/qualities, but they are a sentient race. The vuln to drowning would be because they would be less likely to be able to swim/float because of their bulk. As far as lightning- their rock-like qualities would make them the grounding agent there is some amount of metallic component in most rock.
Anyways, just because some or even all of the initial outline rubs one person the wrong way doesn't mean you should scrap the whole idea.

Immunity to heat and cold?? when was last time you froze a rock? or burnt its skin? Yes lava would be a problem just do to the drowning side of it. Most sources of that extreme heat or cold are not gonna affect anyone any differently, whether immune, resistant or vulnerable,,, Drop 50 gallons of burning hot lava on a titan or elf he will be just as dead as if you dropped it on a vampire or minotaur.

And Wisdom has nothing to do with being dumb or not, that is Intelligence, Wisdom comes from experience and should be a little higher for longer lived races, hence why elves and dwarves have such high wisdom.
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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by Riane » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:57 pm

I'm going to start off by stating my bias: I don't really like the idea at all.

That being said, there are a number of reasons I'm not sure this could ever work. Please keep in mind these are my opinions only, so they mean absolutely nothing when all is said and done, so don't bother wasting your breath arguing with me - it really won't get anyone anywhere.

Let's pretend we have an animated giant rock monster. Rationally, this rock monster would be massively strong, but assigning it a dexterity value? I'd give it one, maybe two points at the max. Can you see the flaws coming already? Because it's so massive and heavy, speed is totally lacking, and there is no way this thing could get more than one attack in per round. Skills like archery, even wielding most weapons, etc are basically lost on it. Mounts? Never. They'd squish the poor things. I can't imagine rock monsters being very intelligent, and I can't imagine them being able to pull off a spell with any speed or intensity. Acrobatics? Dodge? Any and basically all thief skills? Yeah, not a chance. It's a race where the stats would be so skewed in either direction and the skills and spells available to it would be so limited that it would be a nightmare to balance and a horror to play. I can't see this ever being applied as a playable race with any success, especially when we're working on balancing the game, not throwing it into further chaos.

Another reason I don't like the idea is that it just doesn't fit within the game as I know it. When I think of Sentience, I think more of a medieval/high fantasy type world, with elves and dragons and all that jazz. Sure, there are exceptions, but there seems to be a clear enough theme. The playable races are largely humanoid or human-based. I honestly, in my mind of minds, can't picture a giant stone creature coming by in Olaria with a "hey man, what's up?". I can't even wrap my mind around it. I'm also a little biased in that I hate ideas ripped from other sources (aside from the typical fantasy clichés of things like elves, drow, etc), especially other games. If you find something in a game that you like, the best idea is to consider the concepts behind it and why it is such a success, then apply that in a new and interesting way to create something original rather than to just rip it out and create a carbon copy.

On the other hand, I could see a stone beast being a completely valid idea for an NPC. For example, maybe there's a kingdom with a wicked sorcerer bringing life to inanimate objects to do its bidding. Animated rocks, trees, etc, who knows. It could be an interesting application for an NPC in this manner. It's not a bad idea in general, just has the potential for a horrible application of a playable race. However, as Xevira stated, a similar stone defense style construct could be applied in a creation of something like a gargoyle, where there would be no innate superpower advantages and a clear disadvantage. Obviously a race like this would also take some work, but it's a more likely option and fits more closely with the theme of the game, in my opinion.

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Re: 4th neutral race

Post by RedRaven » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:22 pm

So Minotaurs ( a sentient bovine in humanoid form) are easier to visualize than a race of humanoid form sentient "rockmen"? Or the almost demihuman Titans? An earth/rock based race is not as common but they do exist elsewhere. Every race on sentience was originally thought of somewhere else. Again the magic/fantasy basis of the game would be enough to allow for these "exotic" races. They could be made more "original" by changing the name and some stats but they would still be based on something else. And again, the elemental earth component of this race would give them at least average human intelligence and dex. Would they suffer trying to hit a small (ie dwarf etc) target sure, but no more or at least not much more than a Titan. Your "average" human, elf, vampire, lich or what ever race would not survive in the adventuring world, the player character of any race is Above average hence the stats.
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